The Retirement Readiness Gap: Can Plan Design Fix It?

Financial Coach, Julie Everett hosts Ryan Campagna of Sentinel Group to unpack why only 13% of workers feel on track for retirement and nearly half fear outliving their savings. Ryan frames the issue as a readiness crisis driven by plan access, plan design, misconceptions, and lack of confidence, sharing examples of workers misreading Social Security “normal retirement age” and seeking a single “catch-up” investment. 

They discuss best-in-class plan features—auto-enrollment, auto-escalation, QDIA/target date options, disciplined diversification, and re-enrollment to re-default nonparticipants—plus the importance of ongoing education and one-on-one support. 

They also highlight overlooked topics like Social Security, Medicare, HSAs, and Roth contributions, warn against rigid or misleading social-media advice, and emphasize that saving more and taking action now beats waiting for a perfect plan.

00:00 Retirement Reality Check
00:54 Meet Ryan Campagna
02:19 Readiness Crisis Explained
06:08 Auto Features That Work
09:19 Catch Up in Midlife
12:38 Investing Myths and Basics
16:52 Best in Class Plan Design
27:42 Education That Reaches Everyone
35:11 Fixing the System at Work
42:38 Take Action This Week
44:42 Wrap Up and Next Steps

Transcript

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The State of Retirement Readiness with Ryan Campagna, CFP®, AIF®
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: [00:00:00] Do you actually know if you're on track for retirement? Not like a ballpark feeling, but like do you know know? Because according to some recent data, only 13% of workers say that they are. And that is a sad number for me as, as a coach, as somebody who's been in the industry for a long time. And nearly half of, of workers worry that they're going to outlive their savings.
And it's not just numbers, it's not just statistics. That should be a wake-up call to all of us in the industry. So today I've got Ryan Campani on the show. He's a CFP, just like me, a partner at Sentinel Group, and someone who has spent over 20 years helping employers build better retirement plans for their people.
So today he's helping us understand what's really going on and more importantly, what we can do with all of this information. So Ryan, tell our Financial Wellness at Work audience a little bit more about yourself[00:01:00] 
Ryan Campagna: Thanks, Julie. Uh, so my name is Ryan Campagna, and I serve as the head of sales for Sentinel Group, a firm that I've been with my entire career, which is almost twenty-three years, which is kind of crazy. so my experience kind of runs the gamut when it comes to retirement planning and retirement readiness. Um, when I first started, I was fortunate enough to, uh, working with plan sponsors and participants, helping them do enrollment meetings, really walking participants through the ABCs of planning. And think it was probably that point in my career where I realized, and I was very young, all of the tremendous misconceptions that people might have when they're thinking about retirement planning. it was a little alarming and a little, um, uncomfortable to kind of get used to when I was talking to people that were considerably older than me, and I was trying to explain them, you know, kind of the, the best type of behavior to set themselves up for a, for a secure retirement. But I, but I'm really excited that I was able to, you know, affect some change with a lot of different people. And as my career [00:02:00] at Sentinel has evolved to where I am today, we get to work with a tremendous amount of plan sponsors and hope to really provide expert plan design, uh, really direct one-on-one guidance to participants to hopefully get people a lot closer to retirement. So, um, yeah, super excited to be here and looking forward to the conversation.
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: So I have some stats for listeners today, 'cause I love numbers. I'm guessing you love numbers too. Like, that's what, like, we gravitate towards this, this field of, like, the quant and the qual, and you blend it all together. Like, it's, it's, it's a great place to be. But that opening stat where 13% of workers, uh, feel like they're on track, half of them worry that they're going to outlive their savings.
So from where you're sitting and, and advising plan sponsors, do you see this as a retirement crisis or as a readiness crisis or maybe something else, uh, altogether?
Ryan Campagna: So as much as I hate to use the term crisis, I'd probably say it's more of a [00:03:00] readiness crisis. I think the issue fundamentally is access to plans, uh, perhaps plan design habits, and then confidence. Because I can't imagine it's really just about retirement balances, right? So, you know, on in my career, as I mentioned, you really hear some of those alarming things of what people perceive retirement to be about.
So there's probably a thousand different examples that I could provide, but I remember doing one-on-ones with a company years ago, and there was a woman who I believe she was a secretary, um, at this business, a lovely lady. I've known her for years, and she had amassed a savings of a hundred thousand dollars in her 401.
And to her, that was a tremendous amount of money, and it is to a really, a, a really, a lot of people. um, and I'd said to her, you know, um, we'll call her Sally. I said, "Hey, Sally, congratulations. I understand you might be retiring." She said, "Yeah, Ryan, I, I am." And, you know, I said, "That's great." And, and she said, "Yeah, because it's my normal retirement age." And I kind of thought to myself, "Oh, interesting." then it maybe it took me a split second to put two and two together, and she was [00:04:00] making those comments simply because of what she had read on her Social Security statement and perceived that to mean that is the year, your normal retirement age, where you should retire. So I had to have a really difficult conversation with her about whether or not she could retire or not. And again, that was kind of one of the really early misconceptions that I was able to come across, and it was alarming. So I, I, I think, you know, overall in the industry, there, there is a, a readiness crisis. I think, um, plan design has helped tremendously, but I don't think anything is gonna replace the need for confidence, people's financial confidence in the workforce. So for, for that, for that woman, she thought she was making the right decisions based on misinformation, and I don't think she had the confidence or the wherewithal to ask a professional, "Does this make sense?" Um, and I think that's what people need. I mean, at the end of the day, we're all just men and women trying to do what we can, working ourselves through the workforce, and retirement [00:05:00] decisions are really, really impactful, really, really important. So auto features are great, communication is great, but really nothing replaces one-on-one guidance, and that's one of the big challenges in our industry that we try to provide.
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: Well, and I, I appreciate the positive impacts of things like auto-enrollment and auto-escalate, the things that we talk about on our, uh, coaching line calls, the things that we talk about in our webcasts all the time. But I agree with you 100%, like that one-on-one, you cannot replace that with things that are automated.
Also, the inclusion of target date funds. So these are all things that have made it easier, um, because retirement is such a unique future prospect, right? You know, we were talking before we got started recording here about a little bit what my life looks like here in the med- in the Midwest, right? Where we're talking about farming and [00:06:00] farmland.
That, that's gonna be a very different experience than, you know, what you would be looking at retirement-wise in the, the Northeast. So we're finding that younger workers, our, our Gen Z, our millennials, they're actually showing some better readiness matric- metrics than boomers, um, largely due to better plan access, and this is a hopeful sign.
Um, but what do you worry about for them that, that data may not be capturing?
Ryan Campagna: Yeah, it's a great question. So I think the prevalence of auto features is a major step in the right direction. I mean, if I was talking to a plan sponsor, and they wanted to affect retirement readiness and move the dial a-as really as much as they can, it starts with auto features because it, it takes the person that likely would not have made a decision, whether a right decision or wrong decision, they likely would have just not made a decision, and it really s- helps you, um, uh, to move, to move the [00:07:00] ball forward, if you will.
So I think auto-enrollment is critical. Um, it's a way to get people in the plan in a really way, but it's far from perfect. So, you know, I think what a lot of people do is they'll say, "Oh, yes, I think auto-enrollment makes sense. I'm gonna add auto-enrollment to the plan," which is a great decision. the question is, well, what are we gonna default people at? Do we default people at three percent or five percent? And I think if you don't have auto-escalation built in... So for those listeners at home, uh, auto-escalation is the concept that somebody might be defaulted or auto-enrolled at three percent. You can then add a feature to the plan called auto-escalation, where that person is automatically, their deferral rate is increased on the anniversary, let's say, by one percent. So you start off at three, and you might get to ten over the next seven years. That magical combination is really, really critical. So I think the numbers are promising because I think auto-enrollment is way up, but I think the auto-escalation has to work kind of in lockstep with that. [00:08:00] And I think a lot of plan sponsors might have had to make a difficult decision because they feel like they're making the decision for the participant, and I think that's okay because people can opt out. So I think, like, the auto-escalation is something that's really, really critical, and I think sometimes people might get the perception of, "Oh, I'm being defaulted at, let's say, five percent." They might assume that's the right number because their employer is giving them that guidance. And they might not, you know, give them the advice, but the fact that if it's written in a plan like that, they might just assume that they're looking out for them. But what that person really needs to understand is, "That's great we're being auto-enrolled at five. Ten, twelve, thirteen is probably the goal," and that's why the auto-escalation really, really, uh, i-is critical. So I, I think that's probably one example of plan sponsors doing the right thing, but they need to follow through and kind of see it through to the end. And, uh, and plan investments are another example, if you want to go there as well.
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: That's where I was actually gonna go next, but then I was gonna go back to, like, that [00:09:00] the unique nature of every single person's retirement plan, right? Maybe they do have some source of passive income that will support them in retirement. Maybe they're one of those lucky people that has a pension throwback from wherever else, in which case maybe that 5% could close a gap for them.
Or one generation that I didn't mention in that previous, uh, note was Gen X, and we're seeing Gen X being sandwiched right now with just competing priorities, competing for retirement, but also raising kids, paying off student debt, you know, paying off, you know, uh, mortgages. That generation is really sandwiched right now.
Um, what would be some ways to, to course-correct if you find yourself in that spot where maybe they didn't have access to this information 10 years ago? What do you do now?
Ryan Campagna: Yeah, it's a great question. Unfortunately, as people get [00:10:00] older, as they move through their working career, things only get more challenging, and they get more important. You know, so I think, you know, for a super young generation, for the people just entering the workforce right now, they likely don't need a full-blown financial plan, right? Those are the folks that probably need to sign up the plan, uh, get auto defaulted, um, you know, uh, participate in auto escalation, don't opt out, pick a good diversified investment, and then it can be hands-off, so long as they've made those decisions, you know, really early on in their working career. For those folks that have not, um, you know, they probably have a little bit more of an uphill battle. Uh, they probably need to look at themselves a-and kind of go through some of the more basic elements of financial planning to say, "Listen, do I have my ducks in a row?" Um, obviously, they need to be contributing to a plan. They need to be contributing to probably a, um, a type of plan that allows them maybe to do a catch-up contribution, um, because they're a little behind the eight ball, and they need to get caught up. Um, they need to make sure they have emergency savings and, and, and debt [00:11:00] management. Um, so there's a whole host of, um, financial, um, necessities that become really, really important. I think one of the problems with that generation is that sometimes, um, these programs may or may not be, um, available through their employer.
They likely would have a company-sponsored plan. But there are other elements of basic financial literacy. They might not have a financial planner, right? Maybe they don't have enough assets, um, or, or can't afford to... the cost of a plan. But I think that's really a really critical area where one-on-one guidance, perhaps offered by a retirement plan specialist, really, really makes a lot of sense because you can make some minor mistakes early in your working career.
When you get into that meaty part of your highway journey years, you really can't afford to make mistakes. So to sit down with somebody to say, "This is how much I have saved. This is what my life insurance situation looks like. This is how much debt I have or lack thereof," they need to start prioritizing and really be very intentional now. Save more, [00:12:00] plan more, delay less, in that order.
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: And also because you have those conflicting priorities, like I'll just throw one in there, the possibility of supporting kids through school, right? Kids through college, right? Re-reminding them that, you know, uh, students can borrow for school and can't borrow for retirement. So being intentional about or maybe even supporting, uh, aging parents or aging family members.
That's another place where I'll commonly see, um, where assets will be heading in that direction when they should be sticking with that participant. But on the coaching line, very commonly receiving phone calls about, "I'm behind on my retirement savings, so tell me about the investment that I need to use to help me catch up."
Ryan Campagna: Yep.
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: how scary is that statement?
Ryan Campagna: Yeah. I, yeah, 'cause that's a really cha-- that's a [00:13:00] scary question to get asked, right? 'Cause there's not a good answer. Um, I mean, the, the best investment is the most diversified age-appropriate investment for that person, right? So I, I am happy that I think that, um, we have made tremendous strides as an industry, even just over the course of my working career, where I remember doing those one-on-one meetings with participants where I was helping those people build asset allocation portfolios 'cause they really didn't exist. Then you had the prevalence of the risk-based models, which were a game changer. You could actually control your risk exposure in a diversified way, really, really significant enhancement. Then migrating to target date funds, and now we find ourselves managing the plethora of, of, um, managed accounts or customized target date funds, whatever you wanna say.
So I think they're constantly getting better. They're getting more personalized and more detailed. So I think what I would probably say to that person I would say, "If you want to maximize your opportunity for success in retirement, the best [00:14:00] thing you could do is choose a, a risk age-appropriate investment," and, and we can certainly help people do that. secondarily, don't worry about the, the, the market performance in the short term, and you have to somewhat kinda forget about it, right? Because there's that gut reaction where, let's face it, most people's retirement assets are probably their single largest investable asset for most people, right? And it also might be an account if they're not used to the markets, that if they see a ten percent fluctuation, I think there's that reaction to try to do something, and oftentimes, as you know, Julie, the best thing to do often is nothing, right?
Especially in a down market. Keep investing. Invest more. So what I would answer that person if they said that to me directly, I'd say, "Get a good investment that's diversified," that most plans have today is the QDIA. But the largest lever that that person can pull to give themselves the greatest balance at the end of their working career is not knowing in advance what investment would perform the [00:15:00] best. It's looking for a way to be able to save maybe a half a percent more per year, one percent more for per year. That overwhelmingly will have the largest impact on their nest egg at the end of the day, and that's what people need to be, um, reminded of often, right? So it's save, try to save a little bit more, look for excuses to save.
When you get that raise, put a little bit more into the plan. I think those are the things that people need to be focused on 'cause, um, 'cause we can't control the markets.
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: Nope, not at all. And, um, I think whenever you go through the lineup, you know, your fund lineup within your plan, and I see this quite a bit where the, the funds that are selected were just the ones that had the highest returns most recently, and then that's the one fund that we hold. And I think 2025 was a great reminder with international markets.
Uh, if you had been chasing US markets for the last however many years, you [00:16:00] would've done fairly well. 2025, you would've been like, "Man, those international markets sure showed up this year," which was a reminder to maintain that disciplined, diversified, you know, investment allocation, holding a little bit of everything.
I think I explain it as, as, uh, you will never end up 100% in a loser bracket if you hold a little bit of everything. That's the only way to, to hedge against that.
Ryan Campagna: I remember doing enrollment meetings years ago, and we had to show the Calen table, and we had a really simplified version of it, and it would be such a, a, a really an obvious way for an investor to see, e-even an unsophisticated investor, that what does really well one year likely will cycle down and eventually fall out of favor, and the idea that no asset class is always the best performing.
So being diversified, age appropriate is the way to go
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: Absolutely. So we've mentioned a few elements that you'll find in good plans. Things like auto-enrollment, where participants [00:17:00] have the option to opt out, but otherwise are set to start contributing to their plan at, by a certain date at a certain percentage. We've talked about auto-escalate, which will allow participants to put th- the increase of their contribution on autopilot as well.
And then we talked about the QDIA, which is the investment option that is selected for a participant if they don't make a selection for themselves. And these three things put together, that-- I mean, like, I've been in the industry for 21 years now. None of these things existed when I started, right? Just like you, putting together plans, uh, ourselves.
Um, so when you're designing a best-in-class plan, something you're really, really proud of, what are... Are there any other features that we didn't just mention of those three that you feel like are non-negotiables?
Ryan Campagna: Yeah, I mean, I think having strong defaults, as you mentioned, is really, really critical. Auto-enrollment, auto-escalation, [00:18:00] QDIA, um Two things come to mind. Um, having ongoing education webinars and one-to-one support is really, really critical, and I'll expand on that in a second. But while we're still talking about the auto features, one thing that a lot of progressive plan sponsors are doing nowadays is the idea of, uh, defaulting people, uh, on an anniversary date.
So what might happen through an auto-enrollment is I'm hired by your company, right? I go to work for Julie, and I might, um, I'm, I'm defaulted at a certain percentage upon my date of hire. Well, let's assume I opt out. Let's assume I had a bad week. I didn't know what I was doing. I was confused, or I just simply decided I didn't wanna do that. Oftentimes, plan sponsors with the right attitude might do that but then literally do nothing after that, right? So I think that, um, even if somebody's unengaged on a single day, they could be opt out of their plan for the rest of their life. Um, I think having some re-enrollment, so that's the term, the [00:19:00] re-enrollment idea would be maybe every year, maybe every couple years, you re-enroll everybody. So what that would look like is, let's assume you had a hundred employees. Come January first or on an anniversary date, everybody would re-enroll in the plan and be defaulted to a single, uh, high water savings mark. So those that were... Let's assume that would be five percent. Anybody under that, people that would be zero, would be re-enrolled to five.
If somebody would be greater than that, oftentimes that, they then keep that, that, that larger deferral amount. So it's a, it's a way to kind of make people opt out every single year. And some plan sponsors say, "Man, that seems very intrusive. That, that seems like a lot of work for my participants." Well, if you think about health insurance, it would be crazy to assume that you wouldn't have to re-enroll every year for your health insurance, and that is way more complex than what we're suggesting, which is nothing more than saying, "You're d- you're, you're deferring zero.
We're going to re-enroll you to five percent. You can opt out again." But the idea being is most people won't [00:20:00] respond. They'll be, they'll be re-enrolled to a default amount, and we'll put them in a better, better situation. So I think, um, I think that's really important. And then the final thing, which I kind of started by saying, is the one size fits all way to do employee education just simply does not work any longer. Um, the auto features are really, really important, but I, I think what participants need to start thinking about is their unique situation and the fact, and employers need to understand that their employees rely on them for so much. They rely on them for their paycheck. They rely on them for their insurance.
They offer... They often, during a crisis, they would rely upon their employer for e- you know, e-emergency counseling. There's countless, countless benefits they get through your employer, and financial wellness and financial resources really are becoming more and more prevalent offered by their employer. And They don't always have to be really dry conversations about the dollars and cents of the [00:21:00] situation. I mean, having... Challenging people to start thinking about where they're going to spend their retirement and make it fun, right? When I retire, where do I want to be? Who do I want to spend time with? Those are major decisions that people have to start thinking about. And, you know, I'll, I'll share a quick anecdote, Julie, that I, um... A coworker of mine, um, has a, has a client who I know personally, and this coworker, who's a certified financial planner, came to me and said, "Hey, Joe is retiring. Uh, Joe wants to retire." And I said, "Oh, that's great," again, 'cause I-- we, we both know Joe. And this planner said, "Yeah, I told him he can't." I said, "Well, that's interesting," 'cause I know a little bit about Joe, and, you know, he's saved and he's worked hard his whole life. And I said to him, "Well, why'd you tell him he... You know, he's got a, a handsome retirement balance.
Why'd you tell him he couldn't retire?" this person told me, "'Cause he has no hobbies. He has nothing to do in his personal time. He's going to drive his wife crazy." And, and, and it was kind of like a funny [00:22:00] conversation, but it did really warrant, like, a serious chat with that person to be like, "Forget about the financial element.
You think you're going to stop working and then do what?" And he wasn't retiring at 75. It was, like, a 64-year-old retiree. But it, it really made me... I was kind of proud that, that, that the planner said that, 'cause these are the types of things that people need to be thinking about, is how are you going to spend your time? And, uh, it's a little bit of an abstract decision because it's so far away, but people need to think about it
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: Back when I was a financial advisor, I had a client who retired three different times while we worked together because he was kind of like when, with one of your first examples, right, of, of the secretary who said, "It's, it's my retirement age." It was the same kind of thing. Well, it's time to retire.
Age-wise, it's time to retire. And, you know, he would have been older than 65, and so he did retire because he felt like it was the right time, but he had the [00:23:00] energy and the drive, and he still had so much to give. And every single time he'd retire, he'd go back into a different industry. Like at one point in time, he was a school bus driver
Like this is a, this is a, a, a new endeavor for you. But, uh, three different times, and I, and I have had conversations on, on, uh, the coaching line too about that. If you are a couple years out from retirement, numbers look good, you gotta figure out what you're gonna do with yourself. How are you gonna spend your time?
Who are you gonna spend your time with? What are you gonna do? Um, and it's possible, I think the phrase I always say is, is how are you gonna spend your time and money with that extra 40-plus hours a week that right now you're giving to your job? Because some hobbies are more expensive than others. Does that need to be fit in the plan?
Um, or, or maybe it's gonna be something like travel or, you know, things like that, that, that all need to fit in there
Ryan Campagna: Yeah. Agreed
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: So when you audit a plan or look at a plan and you find that it's, it's underserving its [00:24:00] participants, what are some of the most common culprits?
Ryan Campagna: Um
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: And plans have really gotten cleaned up lately, so I can't say that I see as many as I used to. It used to be things back in the day, 'cause I did some plan design when I was an advisor, things like the QDIA was like a stable value fund. I'm like, "Oh no, you did not."
Ryan Campagna: Yeah, a great point. I mean, I think for the most part, a lot of plans have, like, cleaned up their act. Um, I, I think that you're... You know, they have proper QDIA's. You know, there's, there's, uh, you know, to find revenue sharing in a plan, and we don't need to get into what that is, is really, is really, really rare.
Often it's al-always institutionally priced investments. So I think people are doing a lot of things really, really well. Um, I think, you know, when, when you're auditing a plan, I think there's still an element of, like, needing to have an advisor to oversee [00:25:00] the plan. So I think that's probably one thing that usually there's not an audit, uh, there's not an advisor on the plan, it can be relatively obvious because I think that The record keepers typically, um, have great technology, but they oftentimes, depending, especially in the, in the, in the small to mid-market, don't take enough time and effort to get to know the client, right?
To then understand how they want to serve up a, a really curated menu of investment topics to participants, where an advisor can really, really do that. So 10 years ago, our advisors were focused on fees, funds, and fiduciaries. Put in a process, make sure the investments are really well, make sure the fees are low. For the most part, every advisor does that nowadays. So I think like really trying to create really, really thoughtful programs, and some-sometimes it's not nec- not necessarily something you can read in a 408(2) disclosure. That's a, that's an annual disclosure that plan sponsors need to get. when we would talk to them w- in a, you know, [00:26:00] for like an audit scenario, and it's like low engagement, um, it, it's typically that there's very little thought going into any type of employee education.
So like a, a good example would be we're spending so much time on auto features, talking about the retirement readiness crisis, and really getting people to say, "Oh, I need to put more thought into my 401, 403plan." But yet you could ask that same person that's been perhaps really educated on deferral rates and, and proper savings rates, might not know the first thing about what Social Security is, how they would go about making decisions and paying for it, and I think that's really, really important.
So, um, you know what a, a, an interesting tool might be that's perhaps sometimes overlooked is the prevalence of a Roth feature in a plan, right?
So a Roth feature is very easy to add to a plan, to have and maintain in a plan, but if there's really low participation within the Roth deferral feature, that's not necessarily s-so there's something wrong, but it probably does require a couple [00:27:00] questions to say, "Hey, Julie, Mr. or Mrs. Plan Sponsor, have you ever talked to your participants about how this tool can be used?" And I think if nobody's using it, there's probably no education. So, you know, I know that we talk to people often about being able to not only diversify your investments, but your tax liability by having pre-tax and post-tax contributions in a plan. It just gives you that many more options when you ultimately do retire and want to start taking distributions or income out of plans, which can be a daunting task. Um, it simply allows you another option that if you don't take a, take advantage of it now while you're working, you can't take advantage of it later.
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: You made a really interesting comparison earlier about how we are all so used to going through annual enrollment, taking a look at all of our voluntary benefits, and then also health insurance being a big, a big one. I actually recorded an episode, it hasn't gone live publicly [00:28:00] yet, but it will closer to that open enrollment season, where we talk about like that's the reset.
Like it's a, a, um, an annual reset where you could potentially be even giving yourself a raise depending on, on the type of changes that you make, or maybe saving yourself some money for some benefits that are not really bringing you a whole lot of value. And I never thought of the fact that retirement doesn't have that same reset, right?
it doesn't have that forced one. Um, and whenever you talk about the types of participant education, it really is about bringing all of these things together. I think number-- Social Security is really confusing to people, especially if they're gonna continue working, but take it as soon as they're eligible, and how that can affect them.
But not only that, when we talk about Medicare is another one that really surprises people, especially if people wanna continue working after age sixty-five, [00:29:00] and maybe they even have access to something like a HSA, and how those don't necessarily play nice together. And when we talk about the menu of, of education, the different ways that participants can receive that education, we're talking about webinars, right?
We're talking about, um, conversations that they're having with their advisors. We're talking about, um, online access. are there any modes of education that you feel like have been extraordinarily helpful for participants?
Ryan Campagna: I try not to think about any one mode of advice or financial wellness delivery that is the most important, 'cause the fact of the matter is I might wanna hear something in a different way than you may, that I know that my parents would want versus my kids, right? So I'm forty-six, so I'm thinking of my parents and I'm thinking of my son who's [00:30:00] about to enter the workforce.
We're all very different people, and a singular topic might be just as important to all three groups, but wanna be delivered in, in a lot of different ways. So, you know, at, at Sentinel Group, one of the things that I'm really excited about is our... is, uh, My Financial Journey, which is our financial wellness, um, uh, offering. And we purposely make sure that content and those topics are delivered in a multitude of different ways. So I think you're always gonna want those people that want to speak with a human, either, you know, virtually, uh, um, or, or, uh, or one-on-one. And I think it just brings this enhanced level of confidence that you're speaking with a human, you're running ideas by them, and you're getting validation or really, really direct support from an individual that you can ask anything they want. I also think there can be webinars and seminars that can be steered towards one of those different age groups that can be really, really impactful. Uh, our, our webinars that we do about, uh, Social Security and Medicare are by far our most popular. Now, [00:31:00] my son, my twenty-one-year-old, probably wouldn't care too much about that, but my parents certainly would, right?
They would really embrace that and probably have a lot of questions. Um, and then there's obviously those people that wanna self... they wanna self-help. They wanna go online and have an entire virtually virtual element. So using Financial Finesse, using the AIME tool, I think it's a really great way for participants on their own time to be able to go in, uh, input some information about themselves, and get really, really sound financial coaching from, um, a virtual experience, because maybe they're working during the day, they can't get to a computer, or they just wanna log on at night with their spouse and have that same type of experience.
So I, I don't think it's that one's the best. I think you have to try to, um, target this multi-generational workforce in a bunch of different ways, and the participant's gonna choose what's best for them. It's all about the personalization, right? People wanna have this personalized, um, um, experience and that...
And, and so options I think, I think are key.[00:32:00] 
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: It is, I, you know, there, it may be a, a generational or, or there typically is some generational assumptions we can make about how people choose to learn. But then not only that, it's their workday, what their workday looks like, right? Do they have a desk? Don't they have a desk? What kind of autonomy do they have with their schedule?
You know, like, those are some other reasons that, that-- of other things that may impact how someone, uh, is deciding to learn. And I, and I think another one that I come across would be their, their confidence or their comfort level within their perceived financial position. So when I see things like shame clouding over, they are much less likely, I think, to talk to an individual, much more likely to wanna attend a group session, or more likely to wanna work with Amy, our virtual coach, right?
Just because might not quite be ready yet to either look at [00:33:00] the numbers or to have someone else look at the numbers with them
Ryan Campagna: Y-yeah, a-absolutely. I mean, I think that, uh, you know, one of the things that, that Sentinel has done for a few years, uh, for some of our clients is, you know, when I used to do enrollment meetings, there were the, the, the, the participants that would sit in the very front row of the meeting, they would raise their hand and ask all the questions. Those people are very engaged, right? Uh, yeah, you have to worry about them, but at least they're engaged. They wanna know what's going on. They, they, they're not afraid to ask questions. What we started worrying about years ago are the people that are in the back that aren't answering, that aren't asking any questions at all, or even more importantly, the people that blow off the meeting and say, "I don't have to go," right? Those are people that are probably in a position, obviously, they, they could be very, you know, in a good financial shape, but ul-ul-ultimately, they might be a little concerned. They don't know the questions to ask. So I think now we're kind of getting into, uh, an area where when you're hiring a service [00:34:00] provider, whether it's an advisor or, or a record keeper, like you really have to be confident and comfortable with the fabric of their people, right?
And, and, you know, in the financial services industry, that's really, really important because you need to have a lot of comfort talking to these people. And if the firm isn't giving off that, I guess, vibe, for lack of a better way of saying it, right? If you're uncomfortable with them, your people are going to be comfortable, uncomfortable with them, right?
So, you know, when we do one-on-one meetings with our clients, we're not showing up in a three-piece suit with, you know, cufflinks on because that might be appropriate for some of the audience, but there's plenty of people that might say, wanna talk with a banker. I wanna talk with a financial coach." And it's, it, it's making sure that person is comfortable coming in and asking that really uncomfortable question that you're probably gonna be really glad they did because you probably have a really good answer for them. So it's all about confidence. It's all about getting people comfortable, and it's all about, you [00:35:00] know, they, they can't be shamed.
They have to be really, really excited that you're there, there to help them. So, um, yeah, c-culture, culture of your providers is, is really important.
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: So if you could change one thing about the retirement system, like whether that's like policy, behavior, or even culture like you just mentioned, what would it be?
Ryan Campagna: Oh, gosh. Um, so, you know, one of the things that, you know, we talked a, a minute about, like, the delivery mechanism and how we would communicate to plan participants. think if you take a step back and you think of like what type of topics in a perf- in a perfect world would I or you or the industry really wanna get out to participants, it goes well beyond what a 401k is, what a 403b is.
It talks about like elementary, really basic budgeting, management, basics of estate planning. Nothing fancy, life [00:36:00] insurance, will, stuff like that. So I think there are these foundational elements that I think everybody really needs, and I am convinced that the employer or the workplace is the best place to deliver that. the industry is poised to be able to do it. I don't know if some plan sponsors are ready to pay for it yet. but I really think that the employer is that mechanism to be able to deliver those things to those people. So I, I think that, and especially since COVID, the idea of financial wellbeing and overall wellbeing is one of the things that's on plan sponsors' mind the most. I think financial planning and financial coaching in the workplace is something that has to become way more mainstream. A lot of us are already doing it now, but to be able to offer it as a standalone, I don't know if plan sponsors are ready for that yet. I think in the larger market, you're gonna find that some of them do, but I don't think it's become [00:37:00] so prevalent enough.
So the one thing that I'd like to change, to answer your question, I wish we could offer a pre-tax benefit financial planning in the workplace, right? So if employer, they get a d- they, I mean, employers are getting a tax deduction for their insurance premiums, and we certainly deem that being a very important spend.
Why not offer that in the same way when it comes to financial planning? I think if you did that, you'd have a lot more plan sponsors hiring independent third party wellness coaching firms coming in and being able to help their employees from everything from budgeting to coaching to life insurance, and then some of the really complex stuff would be included there as well.
But I think that's one thing that we need to migrate to because I'm really resolute that that's where it belongs, and sometimes I get passionate about it and a little frustrated 'cause some of the plan sponsors are like, "Yeah, but it's another line item, and I don't know if I can add it." We can make it affordable, but I think that [00:38:00] pre-tax element to allow them to save, um, you know, 25% or whatever it would be, would really help get it over the edge.
So I think that could be a really nice addition that, that's something I don't see enough people talking about today
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: Because, you know, if you think about what things were like, I don't know, 15 years ago, when someone came to work, they were going to be more so isolated to their work for that period of time. Now, when people are coming to work, maybe they're at home, like I am, right? Or if they still have their cell phones with them, right, they're still gonna have access to all of the other voices that, that we're coming across on the financial coaching line.
Maybe it is some kind of a, an AI engine that they asked a very simple question without a whole lot of details and, and now they're gonna run with that response. Maybe it's an influencer that we're following. You know, we actually have a topic coming up for a webcast that is all about social media trends, where we're not necessarily [00:39:00] debunking, because I mean, some of them are valid.
But we're definitely shedding some light on, on, on these different trends that we're seeing as so prevalent, because often it's gonna be the loudest voice that's going to get the attention and the loudest voice that's gonna be followed. And there's a lot of information coming at participants, and it has nothing to do with them, and it's not necessarily, you know, if, if, if an employer doesn't offer some type of a financial wellness benefit, they have-- participants don't have anywhere else to go
Ryan Campagna: Yeah, for sure. And like, you know, and, and, and seeing that made me think of something. I'm not gonna mention his name, but there's a very prominent, uh, I think it's a podcast, maybe he's got a YouTube channel, but the guy is probably one of the most sought after, um, authorities on financial planning. And I'm sure he gives really solid guidance, but sometimes he's so rigid in the way that he's providing this guidance, [00:40:00] people think that they're in no cha-- I mean, some of the stuff is a little outlandish that he says.
It's all fundamental. It all fundamentally makes sense, but, like, he's very, um, very prescriptive with his way to do it is the only way to do it. And I would imagine that there's a lot of people out there which, which would be like, "Well, God, I've completely failed 'cause I have a car loan," right? Well, it's like, well, I have a car loan too.
That's okay. It's normal. Um, you're just not fitting into his particular doctrine or philosophy. So I'm not knocking that, but yeah, you can hear somebody's methodology and it's like, it's either my way or the highway, and that's not really the case. There's a lot of means to the end
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: Well, not only that, I've also come across, uh, different things on social media of if you use... Uh, if you invest in real estate, y- y- you'll never pay taxes again, right? And I'm asked that question very commonly of like, "I went to this seminar, I followed this person, and all I have to do is buy a rental [00:41:00] property and I'll never pay taxes again."
And I'm like, "The IRS would 100% disagree with that." And the people who are providing this guidance are not signing your tax return, so it's just gonna be between you and them and the IRS for, for figuring this out. But it is a narrative I think that people wanna believe of, if I use this particular type of an investment, I'll have so much extraordinary growth, retirement will be a slam dunk.
Or if I use this particular type of investment or process, I can avoid paying taxes or greatly reduce paying taxes. And when it's, when it's something that you wanna gravitate towards anyway, it's easy to wanna absorb that. But it's important to, to bounce these ideas and things off of somebody who has no skin in the game
Ryan Campagna: Yeah, I mean, there, there's no free lunch, right? I mean, you could accomplish all of your financial goals, and there's very logical ways to do it, but it oftentimes takes time, it takes discipline, [00:42:00] and it takes a plan, right? Um, cryptocurrencies are not the answer. Um, some-- you know, buying countless rental properties are not the answer.
And, and either one of those, either one of those can have its place within a financial plan. But the idea being is like, "Oh, I'm just gonna do this." Well, why don't you just try saving ten percent of your pay from the moment you join the workforce? You're probably gonna be fine, right? But that, that seems maybe too challenging 'cause you wanna do something different with your money, and it's boring.
It's not sexy. Well, welcome to our world
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: Exactly. That's the best part about finance is like the very vanilla options are the ones that will absolutely get you there.
Ryan Campagna: Yeah
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: So last question. For someone who, let's just say, is in their 40s and they know that they're behind on their retirement savings and they're feeling overwhelmed, what is one thing that they can do this week?
Ryan Campagna: Uh, one thing they can do this week. I think, um, if they're, if they're behind in [00:43:00] their retirement savings, I think one thing that they can do is, and this is a non-financial answer, right? I was gonna say something different, but I just changed it at the last minute. I think they need to have the confidence and the understanding that they still have time.
They just need to take action, and don't wait for the perfect plan. Take action today. Momentum matters more than pontificating for the next two years of the perfect rental property to buy or when you're gonna buy crypto, right? It's take action, start saving, look for opportunities to increase it, um, and if they're really, really living paycheck to paycheck, I'm sure they could, you know, evaluate how much that Dunkin' Donuts or that Starbucks coffee that they get every single day. There's usually ways to come up with, uh, some basic savings elements and, um, yeah. So momentum. Momentum matters more than, than the perfect plan
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: Yes. the, um, progress, not perfection. You just gotta start
Ryan Campagna: [00:44:00] Yeah. 
Yeah. and you know, the people that look at the market and they say it's too high, I mean, just remember, when you're systematically investing, you're participating in dollar cost averaging. And I think when, you know, when the market goes down, you're just buying things cheaper. So, you know, I said this illustration once at one of my earliest enrollment meetings, and the gentleman next to me laughed.
But I said, "When you're in the grocery store and you're buying orange juice for $5 a gallon, you're buying orange juice for $5 a gallon. If it goes on sale for $2.50, you might buy two," right? you're not looking at the orange juice saying, "What's wrong with this orange juice?" But when it comes to investing, if something's a bargain, people are like, "Man, I don't know.
Maybe now is not the right time." It's the best time. So
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: Mm-hmm.
Ryan Campagna: blinders are okay, too
Julie Everett, Financial Finesse: Yeah. So Ryan, I love that you didn't sugarcoat, you know, any aspects, uh, of our topics today, and, and I love that this, the data is real, and this gap is real for retirement readiness, but there's also a very clear path forward. [00:45:00] So that's what financial wellness at work is all about. it's not about the fear or the shame.
It's just about clarity and the action to move forward. So Ryan, thank you for your time and for the work that you do every day for plan participants who may never meet you, but will absolutely feel the difference because of your involvement. And for our listeners, you now know a little more than you did, about an hour ago.
So do something with that this week. Follow the show, email me at podcast@financialfinance.com, and take some time this week to make the most out of your money